A question that came up last week:
When do we use a person's last name (after first reference) and when do we use the first name consistently? I know we use first names for children, but where do we draw the line? Do we refer to teens by first of last names? Does their age matter? Should a 13-year-old be a first but a 17-year-old be a last?
Personally, it bothers me when we use first names after first reference for anyone older than 12, but that's just me. Is there a rule on this that I'm not aware of? (If there is, no one on the desk that night knew the answer).
So tell me, who's a first and who's a last?
--Kristy
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When you have questions, the copy desk has stylistically correct answers.
10 comments:
The AP style guide says 15 or younger, use the first name on second reference; 18 or older, use the last name on second reference; 16 or 17, depends on the context of the story. If the story is more light-hearted, then use the first name; if it's more serious, use the last. "Light-hearted" isn't well-defined, though.
Also: Who's on first, What's on second, and I Don't Know is on third.
Benton...
Is it OK to make an exception to this rule for light-hearted Out There columns?
Damn, Benton, I thought I had THE answer for Kristy.
Sometime long ago an editor here at the WDH decided the cutoff was 12. Anyone 12 or younger we went with first names on second reference in almost all cases; anyone older we went with last names. We never really distinguished between a feature story and a hard-news story.
I'm going to embarrass myself and admit I didn't know there was an AP style on it.
In light of that, I'd say we stick with AP style except where it creates confusion in a story — such as when two young people have the same first name or the same last name.
What do others think?
— mark t.
I've been making exceptions for first name for Out There columns. They're a little more informal, at least by my reckoning, and it doesn't seem too out of place for me when I look at them.
If it makes you feel better Mark, I didn't know there was an AP guide for it, and apparently, neither did anyone that was working on the night in question. I happen to like the 12 and older rule. It allows for consistency and gets rid of debating a story's tone. Can we go with that?
-Kristy
Also: thanks Benton for catching my drift.
What if the kid has a first name that is on the "list" (see Kristy's cube)?
I kid, I kid.
— Brian
Obviously, if the child has a name like Zy'Quel Marquis Deveauroux, Azalya Sweet Voice,or Lotus Moon-Pyxis we should use their first AND last names every time since these are such common names.
If anyone is curious about the 'list,' the copy desk has been keeping track of the, um, interesting names that have appeared in the different papers' records. The above are the best of the best.
Seriously, though, are we going to go with AP or the way Wausau has been doing it? I think we should make a decision.
--Kristy
Since we strive to follow AP style, why dont' we just stick with that? Since we all do (should!) have Ap styles books at all sites.
AP, please, so two years from now the copy desk doesn't have this conversation again ...
I think tone ought to have some role in which way we go, particularly if the story is police report heavy.
The Kara Madeline Neumann story is a good example/ to me calling her kara in reference to her as the potential victim of a crime is a bit odd.
Adding to the fun in that particular case is the two defendants are her parents and have the same last name.
So, perhaps by default, we probably should use first and last names on all references in hard news stories about the family.
A feature obit about what a nice girl her friends say she was, however, could refer to her by first name.
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